#1 2009-08-28 16:56:59

"How it's Looking" from Charter Review Mtg. 08/27/09

To be presented at next April's Town Mtg.

Mayor:
-Elected / 4 year term / Executive
-In charge of all town business except legislature
-Appoints/removes dept. heads, etc. w/ Councilmen's approval
-Appoints/removes "Solicitor", and secretary (Councilmen's approval NOT needed)
-Must be Wareham resident

Councilmen:
-11 total / 1 per precinct (6 precincts) plus 5 "at large"
-Elected / 2 year term / Legislatve
-Majority(6) needed for quorom
-Must be Wareham resident

PShooter

Last edited by PShooter (2009-08-28 21:12:29)

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#2 2009-08-28 17:07:29

PShooter wrote:

Some details from Charter Review Mtg. 08/27/09

To be presented at next April's Town Mtg.

Mayor:
-Elected / 4 year term / Executive
-In charge of all town business except legislature
-Appoints/removes dept. heads, etc. w/ Councilmen's approval
-Appoints/removes "Solicitor", and secretary (Councilmen's approval NOT needed)
-Must be Wareham resident

Councilmen:
-11 total / 1 per precinct (6 precincts) plus 5 "at large"
-Elected / 2 year term / Legislatve
-Majority(6) needed for quorom
-Must be Wareham resident

PShooter

the 6 precincts will be the voter precincts and must reside in for atleast 1 year.

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#3 2009-08-28 17:32:10

Did they detail at all what they thought was wrong with the current form, or just say "this is what we want to go with"?  Did they do any comparisons to other towns of similar size/demographics?  In short, do they have any actual analysis backing this up, or is it just a case of they want a mayor, the Donahues want a mayor, so they're recommending that Wareham get a mayor?

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#4 2009-08-28 17:36:40

acasualobserver wrote:

Did they detail at all what they thought was wrong with the current form, or just say "this is what we want to go with"?  Did they do any comparisons to other towns of similar size/demographics?  In short, do they have any actual analysis backing this up, or is it just a case of they want a mayor, the Donahues want a mayor, so they're recommending that Wareham get a mayor?

detail.. it doesnt work. comparisions they talked with other towns yes if you check the minutes the first meeting OF CHARTER REVIEW they talked abpout scrapping our current charter and moving on.. not reviewing this current charter..
ps casual you have a pm

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#5 2009-08-28 17:40:38

Danger!!DANGER Will Robinson!!

Last edited by danoconnell (2009-08-28 17:45:27)

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#6 2009-08-28 18:39:43

acasualobserver wrote:

Did they detail at all what they thought was wrong with the current form, or just say "this is what we want to go with"?

Charter Minutes 03/12/2009

"Mr. Slavin stated that he would like to take a straw poll of members present to see how many supported a change in town government.  The poll was recorded 5-0-1 in favor."

Charter Minutes 05/14/2009

"Leie Carmody made a motion that we pursue the Special Act Charter method and if it fails at town meeting then we move directly to a Charter Commission vote.  Ed seconded and Alan called for the vote. It was unanimous, 7-0-0."

Charter Minutes 06/11/2009

"The members debated several of the issues for more than forty minutes.  Alan stated that he felt we should narrow it down and chose a course of action.  We would then be able to assign members to research their respective city governments.  Jack made a motion to select *Form B. The motion was moved by Ed and seconded by Mick.  Alan called for the vote and it was recorded as unanimous."

*Form B: Government by Mayor and City Council Elected by District and at Large

http://www.wareham.ma.us/Public_Documen … rterReview

pssst. Whomever's job it is to post the minutes for the town..you're lagging.

---This process started a while back.

PShooter

Last edited by PShooter (2009-08-28 20:12:48)

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#7 2009-08-28 18:58:26

Gee! What a surprise!

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#8 2009-08-28 20:17:06

Hey Liz, I found this pincushion gnome for you. Is this what your backyard's going to look like Sunday?

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3491/3232022030_cd19f14af0.jpg?v=0

PShooter

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#9 2009-08-28 20:30:49

pshooter my side of the family yes.. just not larrys...good work with the crc stuff!!! kudos..

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#10 2009-08-28 20:56:29

So, even if the mayoral system is voted down at town meeting, they have a backup plan to make sure it happens? Wow...even if the town votes it down, they don't care! They want it and that is that?

This doesn't sound too kosher to me.....

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#11 2009-08-28 21:04:35

11 city councilors for a town this size is insane.

Keep in mind, where it says the Mayor chooses the "solicitor" on his own, no approval needed from the City Council, that means the Mayor would choose who is town counsel.  Isn't it odd they'd have city council approval for other heads, but give the Mayor full control over town counsel? 

Gee....I wonder who town counsel would side with in such a system.

This is garbage.  No mayor for Wareham.  No mayor for Wareham!!!

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#12 2009-08-28 21:36:23

Larry McDonald wrote:

So, even if the mayoral system is voted down at town meeting, they have a backup plan to make sure it happens? Wow...even if the town votes it down, they don't care! They want it and that is that?

This doesn't sound too kosher to me.....

Charter Minutes 05/14/2009

"Alan explained about the Special Act charter amendment which needs a two thirds majority vote. Ed stated that we could do both by trying to get it through town meeting for the vote and if that fails, then we could concentrate on the Charter Commission to get the petition of fifteen hundred signatures, etc.  He stated that we have one or the other or both.  We discussed the elected commission and their powers. It was discussed if we chose to do both and one or the other fails; we can go through town meeting and also go for the charter commission."

PShooter

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#13 2009-08-28 23:10:02

It would seem to me that if the MAJORITY of voters are against it, then that would be the end of it. This is clearly a power move by whomever is driving this ship to push threw what they want. I really believe that if you need an example of POWER ELITE, this is it.

Now, let's exam the most basic problem with the committee. They were charged with reviewing the charter and making recommendations. In the first meeting, they chose NOT to review the charter and move towards a new government. Hmmm, so why is this called a charter review committee if they didn't even review the charter?

I encourage everyone to go to the Wareham Website and review the minutes of this meeting. There are some very important names that appear and what is happening on this committee is a mirror of some of the comments they have made in recent months before the committee was formed.

What options do we have to stop this apparent power play?

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#14 2009-08-28 23:25:38

the danger here is that they already have a voting base (dem. town committee) of over 1000 and it is a lot easier to go around to places where they have a captive audience and no opposition.

Lets face it the level of indifference in this town is incredible and a pair of solicitors canvassing neighborhoods, nursing homes and trailer parks over a weekend could scare up 2000 votes for pretty much anything.

some people in town will allegedly sign a blank petition.

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#15 2009-08-28 23:47:51

..and John and Jane are just the folks to pass this blank petition around!!

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#16 2009-08-28 23:51:42

That is 2000 out of 14,000. Surely we can scare up 3000 votes to put them out of business. I think some of those votes were lost during the John Donahue race baiting issue. Old times would more than likely vote against a mayoral system, and there are plenty still hiding in the shadows for personal reasons that will not vote with the power brokers running this town. Hopefully, we can organize and inform enough of the voters to bring a stop to the nonsense happening. If not, then I guess we all lose.

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#17 2009-08-29 07:46:18

What we need is evidence that the mayoral system won't work in Wareham and we need to get the message out with a voter base mailing, with info commercials on channel 9 and with community meetings etc.

Look at what happens when you VOTE for total morons, unethical, selfish, loud mouthed idiots who are ruining the town. You get them for their entire term unless they commit murder or something as bad as that.

We are stuck with our bos and if we could have fired them, they would have been in the unemployment line years ago.

Voting for a mayor makes me nervous. We could get stuck with a total crackpot.

As to the make up of the CRC?? Some of them had only been to a couple of our town meetings and those were the chaotic debacles led by John D. But in all the years I had attended town meetings, moderated by the late Jack Tabor, they were civilized affairs where town business was carried on in a fair and democratic manner.

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#18 2009-08-29 08:15:48

You can get enough votes to kill anything with the energy generated by this site.
Has anyone checked into the WCTV program?
Once on the air, and accepting phone calls, it should be well watched and participated in...time to get going!

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#19 2009-08-29 09:08:25

just another bit of information at the CRC meeting they talked about going to WCTV cable 9 & 30 after labor day..
1..the CRC we be on at 9am the live segment show..
2..all the board but 1 wanted to prescript the Q & A to be asked....
3..major concerns was not knowing the answers to unscripted candid ?'s and having a more professional person ie(lawyer) asking ?'s and get them tounge tied or talked in circles..
again only 1 member out of the 8 wanted a candid q & a..
4..there was no mention of the live call in portion of this show nor was there any mention that they would take any ?'s emailed, mailed, or dropped off for this show..

just my 2 cents take it for what its worth.. from reading previous minutes and going to a meeting i honestly dont think they want are input or they would have actually reviewed our charted and asked for our input before scrapping it and moving on...i feel that the media releases are just so we know what they are doing but we have no input..the cable show as of now we have input its just informational.. again just my 2 cents..

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#20 2009-08-29 09:37:18

Your cable show should take phone calls and questions.
The difference between what you will offer and any show that the CRC or BOS have is that your show will be an outlet for real news in the Town and any citizen can participate.
Once people know they will be treated with respect, they will only watch your show...the other shows will be watched by the participants families and friends.
One show (yours), entertaining and informative.
Their show..boring and presumptuous and probably patronizing.
Which show would YOU watch?

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#21 2009-08-29 09:43:52

Are these meetings open to the public?  I just read the minutes from the first 3 (will get to the rest later), and there really is no reference to actually reviewing the charter.  Is there a 'citizens participation' time?  Can someone go and stand up before them to ask "The meeting minutes from this committee show that the decision was made to change the charter without any work having been done to review it.  Why didn't you review the charter before making the decision to change it? "

For the record, I don't think Wareham needs a mayor, but if someone put a logical analysis in front of me saying "We reviewed the charter, here are the X number of things wrong with it, and here's how they would be solved with a mayor and 11 councilors.  Also, a mayoral system isn't perfect, and we anticipate these Y number of problems with it, but here's how we plan to address those".....well, that could be convincing if done right.  This, however, was most definitely not done right.

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#22 2009-08-29 09:47:34

acasualobserver wrote:

Are these meetings open to the public?  I just read the minutes from the first 3 (will get to the rest later), and there really is no reference to actually reviewing the charter.  Is there a 'citizens participation' time?  Can someone go and stand up before them to ask "The meeting minutes from this committee show that the decision was made to change the charter without any work having been done to review it.  Why didn't you review the charter before making the decision to change it? "

For the record, I don't think Wareham needs a mayor, but if someone put a logical analysis in front of me saying "We reviewed the charter, here are the X number of things wrong with it, and here's how they would be solved with a mayor and 11 councilors.  Also, a mayoral system isn't perfect, and we anticipate these Y number of problems with it, but here's how we plan to address those".....well, that could be convincing if done right.  This, however, was most definitely not done right.

yes the crc meeting are open to the public i attended 1 last thurs. no citizens part.. that was my point the crc NEVER reviewed the charter 1st meeting was discussed to scrap ours..

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#23 2009-08-29 17:22:30

Courier

Beginning the process of charter review
Sun Aug 23, 2009

"It is this route, Special Acts, the Charter Committee has decided on.

Next week, we’ll communicate the thinking that led to opting for a new form of government."


http://www.wickedlocal.com/wareham/town … ter-review

Stay Tuned.

PShooter

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#24 2009-08-29 17:38:15

This, from the minutes almost immediately after the first CRC meeting started:

Charter Minutes 03/12/2009

"Mr. Pacewicz referred to the article that was in the newspaper regarding the Town of Bridgewater and their on going effort to change their form of government.  This article was in the Brockton Enterprise.

The members discussed the possibility of changing town government and the problems that have been observed with the town meeting process.  Members expressed the issue of three hundred people making decisions for the whole town and the lack of attendance at town meeting.  It was also discussed that members of town meeting have expressed to Selectmen their anxiety at rising to speak on an issue and the jeers they receive if they do.  The issue of special interest groups was also fully discussed, as well as problems with clarification of the budget process, regulations for missing meetings, calling of special town meetings, defining day-to-day operations, defining certain phrases and the ambiguity of same.  It was discussed that it would be much more feasible to take the Charter one section at a time."

So, someone brings up an article in The Enterprise and suddenly EVERYONE there feels we need a new form of government in Wareham?

PShooter

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#25 2009-08-29 17:46:14

With all fairness to the people of Wareham there wasn't much thinking that went into this at all, and I think the CRC should apologize to the public for failing to do what they were charged with, REVIEW THE CHARTER. It's a fair question and I would like an answer.

But please CRC, do not insult the intelligence of the good people of Wareham by offering up a thought process that never took place. Just tell the truth, next week you can tell us all about who TOLD you to change the form of government. That is all any of us really want to know.Another fair question that the tax payers deserve an answer to.

I also feel that you should cost out your proposal so the tax payers can add it up for themselves.

Mayor: $120,000.00 annually plus benefits (add 25%)
City Solicitor: $90,000.00 annually plus benefits (add 25%)
Chief of Staff: roughly $80,000.00 annually (plus benefits)
Secretaries for each of these people, even at pt total of about $75,000.00
Now most Mayors like a Town car, and don't forget the Counselors (spelled wrong I know - long day) even at a low rate $30,000.00 annually times 11 of them is $330,000.00 plus the extra stipend for the Chair we'll say $10,000.00. The total package can cost three quarters of a million dollars just in salaries, where is that money coming from?

I didn't pull these numbers out of my ass, these are salaries that people in these positions get paid in other communities. In fact, I think I may be kind of low on the Solicitor and COS. In any event, let's talk dollar and cents and whether the end justifies the means.

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#26 2009-08-29 18:05:17

Well $120,000 is more than John Donahue or Sweet Brucie have ever made in their lives. And when you surround them with the rest of the salaries, they really don't have anything to do. Sounds just like the job at the court house. Oops he lost that one.

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#27 2009-08-29 18:42:11

I was wondering what "Special Act Charter method" was, exactly. I found this:

Local Charter Procedures

http://www.middleborough.com/General/Ch … edures.pdf

PShooter

Last edited by PShooter (2009-09-02 00:26:30)

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#28 2009-08-29 21:30:03

I watched the interviews for the people who put in applications to be on the CRC at the televised bos meetings. The questions asked by the bos made it quite clear that they were looking for a new form of government and wanted to find sympathetic people to put on the committee. Most of the people being interviewed--now on the CRC--complained about town meeting during their interviews. When Sweet Brucie asked what specific areas of the charter they were concerned about--they couldn't answer. Some had not even read the charter.  Cronan asked just one question of each person. I can't remember it word for word, but if you didn't agree with his question--something about whether or not the present charter was working--you didn't get appointed. It was a joke really.

And the people they didn't appoint to the CRC? Well, ragboy would have called them the power elite. I would have called them concerned citizens who had been to every town meeting for years, and loved the town and wanted to see what was best for it. Not like the jokers who had only been to a couple of town meetings and/or had only lived in town a short time,and/or were bos lackeys.

None of us should be surprised that they are acting the way they are. What the CRC doesn't realize is that the 300 people who attend town meeting do so because they CARE about the town and want a say in how it is run. Let's be honest. Town meeting is no walk in the park. It is long and it often takes three nights of your life. We do it because we CARE.

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#29 2009-08-29 22:37:21

The CRC candidates were all asked up front in public if they thought the town government needed to be changed.  Only people who said yes were chosen.

Why is the town clerk on the committee?  Wouldn't any charter review include a review of whether the clerk should be elected or appointed?

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#30 2009-08-29 22:40:32

I've got a question.  What happens when their recommendation doesn't get the 2/3 vote at town meeting and they still haven't "reviewed" the Charter ?
I'm convinced that most of the CRC members still have not read the entire Charter.  And I haven't heard of a back up plan yet.  Hopefully they'll consider an alternative.  Otherwise the existing form of government remains in effect and democracy in its truest form will prevail.
I noticed as you did, Molly, that the majority of those appointed didn't have 10 years of town meeting experience combined.  And by only witnessing the last two or three years, they've seen the most disastrous meetings we've ever had.  And look at who's responsible; the same compliment that have caused the most dysfunction in Wareham's history.

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#31 2009-08-29 22:59:50

bbrady wrote:

I've got a question.  What happens when their recommendation doesn't get the 2/3 vote at town meeting and they still haven't "reviewed" the Charter?

They'll immediately move to Plan B:

This from the Courier:
Beginning the process of charter review
Sun Aug 23, 2009

"The charter commission would require a town-wide petition to gather signatures of 15 percent of registered voters (over 2,000 people) to allow for an election of commissioners, then time for candidates to campaign for an election, and then either one or two years later, the charter proposal prepared by the commission, if approved by the state attorney general, would be presented to voters at a municipal election. We saw that this route would likely require two or more years to complete."

Wareham Charter Review Committee

Alan Slavin, chair, Mary Ann Silva, clerk,
Leie Carmody, Linwood A. Gay, Jack Houton,
Michael Jones, Edward J. Pacewicz, David Smith
http://www.wickedlocal.com/wareham/town … w#comments

PShooter

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#32 2009-09-01 15:26:54

I thought it might be easier to have the Charter Review minutes read to me rather than reading through them myself (lazy, I know), but this is what I came up with.

These are intended to be identical in content to the minutes posted on the Town's website, which can be found at:

http://www.wareham.ma.us/Public_Documen … rterReview

http://www.wareham.ma.us/Public_Documents/WarehamMA_pics/CharterReview.jpg

Charter Minutes 03/12/2009



* I intend to post additional meeting minutes as they are posted by the Town.

PShooter
http://takebackwareham86bos.blogspot.com/

Last edited by PShooter (2009-09-05 04:52:57)

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#33 2009-09-01 16:10:49

I like Plan B...how about you?
Who cares if it takes two years. At least it will be done right by ELECTED members of the Committee.
Any candidates out there?

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#34 2009-09-01 16:18:17

Charter Minutes 03/26/2009



PShooter

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#35 2009-09-01 17:26:40

Charter Minutes 04/09/2009



PShooter

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#36 2009-09-01 21:41:46

Charter Minutes 04/23/2009 (Parts 1 & 2)







PShooter

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#37 2009-09-01 23:01:15

Charter Minutes 05/14/2009 (Parts 1 & 2)






PShooter

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#38 2009-09-01 23:30:09

Charter Minutes 05/28/2009



PShooter

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#39 2009-09-01 23:51:07

Larry McDonald wrote:

It would seem to me that if the MAJORITY of voters are against it, then that would be the end of it. This is clearly a power move by whomever is driving this ship to push threw what they want. I really believe that if you need an example of POWER ELITE, this is it.

Now, let's exam the most basic problem with the committee. They were charged with reviewing the charter and making recommendations. In the first meeting, they chose NOT to review the charter and move towards a new government. Hmmm, so why is this called a charter review committee if they didn't even review the charter?

I encourage everyone to go to the Wareham Website and review the minutes of this meeting. There are some very important names that appear and what is happening on this committee is a mirror of some of the comments they have made in recent months before the committee was formed.

What options do we have to stop this apparent power play?

This has been bothering me for a long time.  The first few weeks Brenda was selectman, she seemed to lean toward returning to the original town charter.  Once there, we would see that each item needed updating for the town.  Working outside the town charter is a violation, outdated or not.  I am all for change, as we have outgrown our charter. So a small group is appointed to review the town charter and make recommendations to move forward.  I would like to see every item of the charter and their written responses, paragraph by paragraph of where the changes are needed. They WHERE NOT APPOINTED TO DESIGN A NEW FORM OF GOVERNMENT, THEY WERE REQUESTED TO REVIEW OUR CHARTER.  THEY DID NOT DO THIS. PUT IN A NEW COMMITTEE THAT KNOWS HOW TO FOLLOW DIRECTIONS AND BRING US THE INFO WE NEED TO GET BACK ON TRACK.  i CAN'T SEE A MAYOR IN WAREHAM!!!

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#40 2009-09-02 00:16:21

Charter Minutes 06/11/2009



Why the most recent minutes posted are almost three months old, is anyone's guess.

PShooter

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#41 2009-09-02 07:43:39

born this has also been my concern.. at this point they have a template draft of a new charter and with the advice of brenda and k&p's lauren they are tweaking that line by line.. either way they the crc plans on cramming this down our throats.. with our vote at town meeting or plan b 15% signatures then to the state..

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#42 2009-09-02 08:17:11

Good job, as always, PShooter...you are the man!!

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#43 2009-09-05 15:31:41

Sweet Brucie already acts like he is THE MAYOR!  -  Controlling every part of Town Government and spending Millions on stupid lawsuits with no fear of being put in his place or in jail. As a Selectam, absent of checks and balances, he has seized  and abused the power of his office with gusto.  Changing to a Mayoral form of Goverment would open the door of corruption even wider!  Look at some of the super corrupt communities like Brockton, Hartford, CT, and Bridgeport, CT.  For a poor city like Brockton, Money goes over the table, under the table and around the table.  One developer got ripped off for $2Million and I'm sure the people of Brockton got crumbs, if that. It is impossble to clean up this sort of mess once it is ingrained and the power is centralized at the top.

If change is needed, go slowly and don't let go of the power that you as Wareham residents still posess!

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#44 2009-09-05 17:02:42

waterview wrote:

Sweet Brucie already acts like he is THE MAYOR!  -  Controlling every part of Town Government and spending Millions on stupid lawsuits with no fear of being put in his place or in jail. As a Selectam, absent of checks and balances, he has seized  and abused the power of his office with gusto.  Changing to a Mayoral form of Goverment would open the door of corruption even wider!

If change is needed, go slowly and don't let go of the power that you as Wareham residents still posess!

I wonder if the Interim Butt Monkey feels like the BOS, etc. have interfered with the "day to day" business of the town. According to the charter:

"...no individual member of the board of selectmen, nor a majority of it, shall, at any time, attempt to be involved in the day to day administration of the affairs of the town, but, shall, at all times, act only through the establishment of the said policy directives and guidelines which are to be implemented by officers and employees appointed or employed by it."

They think the term "day to day administration..," is so ambiguous a term, that they can disregard the intended authority of this directive.

PShooter

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#45 2009-09-08 20:53:12

And another thing...

What is up with the charter review minutes NOT BEING POSTED, online for 3 months. What's that 5 or 6 meetings?

OK, correct me if I'm wrong. THEY NEED public input on this. Even if they eventually have to go the elected Charter Commission route, they'll need plenty of signaures and have to satisfy to the state that they have citizen support.

They decided to scrap the Charter a half hour into their first meeting after someone brought up an article in the Brockton Enterprise. The Charter was changed in 1977, and before that, what 1739? Ya might want to do this right boys & girls.

Even if I agreed with the idea of a Mayoral Government in Wareham (which I don't), the way these guys slither around behind everyone's backs to get things done is UNACCEPTABLE.

NO MAYOR IN WAREHAM

PShooter

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#46 2009-09-09 07:25:23

What? According to Jane D--Wareham is all about TRANSPARENCY now that this bos is in control.

No minutes being posted online for 3 months? Sarcasm alert---What's not transparent about that?

A charter review committee that's required by the town charter but that isn't reviewing the charter? Sarcasm alert again---What's not transparent about that?

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